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Add me on SphinnSo last night I was up all night with my allergies, didn’t get to sleep until 7:30am. In that time period I got up and took a shower, and started to really think about my life, and affiliate marketing. I started thinking about something I had completely avoided thinking about, because I knew it would change my perspective on the industry, and knew it would also severely negatively affect my income.
Whether we like to admit the fact or not, A LOT of business in affiliate marketing completely scams and screws people over; and we’re the guys in the background making a profit from it. I started thinking about the most popular niches out there and the effect it had on the hundreds of thousands of people signing up for these offers. I myself have promoted these offers, and even was currently promoting them, until now. We completely take for granted all the money we make online, and the lengths we’ll go to to make that money sometimes. Let’s just look at a few of the popular niches out there today…
Payday Loans
Payday loans are one of the biggest verticals in the financial sector. I personally know affiliates making over $30k/day on payday loans, and I myself have gotten into them quite a bit. What is a payday loan? Simply put, a person in desperate need (here comes the first moral issue, targeting people who are desperate for money) signs up for a loan. When he doesn’t pay the loan back, he’s charged 400% in interest and ends up being in debt for years. Rather then rambling on about it, I’ll just quote some real testimonials I searched and found last night.
Small Loans, a predatory lender owned by Money Tree, Inc, gave a $200 “payday loan” to a disabled, elderly, illiterate man and thereafter took in his benefits check for him and paid him a small “allowance” out of it, less the money they deducted as “repayment” on the loan. All told, they took thousands from the man over a period of years, bleeding him so badly that he ended up homeless, begging for power to run the machine that treated his chronic lung infection.
Mr. Milford is chronically broke because each month, in what he calls “my ritual,” he travels 30 miles to Gallup [New Mexico] and visits 16 storefront money-lending shops. Mr. Milford, who is 59 and receives a civil service pension and veteran’s disability benefits, doles out some $1,500 monthly to the lenders just to cover the interest on what he had intended several years ago to be short-term “payday loans.”
Sure most of these people are stupid, but can we use that as a legitimate excuse to ruin their lives? Hell no. Payday loans completely screw people over, and for this argument’s sake we’re going to disregard idiots using it for gambling debt or something like that, because either way we’re still harming thousands of good people.
Green Tea/Acai Berry Diet Pills
The green tea/acai phenomenon is huge right now in affiliate marketing. There’s ads all over Facebook urging overweight people that they can really lose weight for free with the help of green tea. The fact alone that we’re leading these people to believe that drinking green tea is going to make them lose fat is bullshit. The sites are filled with fake testimonials and people even pose as fat chicks to get conversions. It gets worse though, they think they’re paying $3.95 to get a free trial bottle, but in the fine print they opt-in to be sent a bottle a month if they don’t cancel within 7 days. These assholes charge $90 for a 1 month supply bottle and just rebill the persons credit card every month. Most people don’t realize it until they’ve been hit a couple times and paid $200 bucks and gotten crappy pills that didn’t help anyways. What makes it worse is that these places don’t pick up their customer support number, don’t respond to emails, and don’t try to every provide ANY help to the poor suckers that were charged. I’ve bought this stuff to examine it myself, and it’s a crappy little bottle in a small plastic wrap that gets mailed to you. Do you know how much it costs the advertiser to produce a bottle of this shit? UNDER $1.00. Trust me, in the past I looked into doing it myself. They charge people $90 for something that cost them a buck, and then upsell them on 10 other crappy products that don’t work.
I took the week’s supply…felt no different…and said “oh well…I’ve done worse things with $3.99.”
I know you’re waiting for the other show to hit the ground and duck…here it comes!
I get a package in the mail with a bottle of 60 pills. I go on line and look at my credit card and they have charged my card an additional $74.99!!!!!!
First I called the c/c company and am disputing the charge but I know I will lose. I contacted Performance Products USA at acai.performanceproductsusa.com and was refered to their webpage buried among millions with a click on accept terms which has a negative marketing plan and they will continue to hit my card for $74.99 until I opt out of the program.
I used the sample GreenTeaLLC sent for 4.99 they claim I signed a contract to take 84.90 a month for their Product I did not! It does not work it is a scam.
I called the told them to cancel any further orders.
They have charged me for three orders 2 i didnot
receive.I was told they will only refund 60 dollars.
THey were supposed to stop taking the money from
my Acct. But Haven’t. I received my bank statement
and they taken another 84.90 out I am very angry
what can I Do ?
Ringtones/Crush/Mobile
I don’t even really have to go into ringtones and mobile stuff because everybody knows they’re deceptive. Again these people are idiots for reading the text that says $9.99/month or $2.99/day, but either way we’re taking advantage of them because they just read the PIN and confirm it. I did ringtones for a long time, who hasn’t tried them? Sure they’re the least harmful of any of the other offers I’ve mentioned, but it’s still the principle of ripping people off. Crush offers advertise “You have (2) new crushes!”, so you sign up to find out and just get a retarded horoscope subscription service.
Flycell, a NY company, billed me $20 a month on my cell phone bill for four months (total $80). By the time I tracked down who was billing me, I contacted them and told them I never asked for or received any service from them (I don’t even know what they do) and asked for a refund. They refused.
The sources above took me literally 10 minutes to find, and there’s hundreds of other stories out there. Now sure you’re going to have pissed off people in any niche or any place; there’s always people who aren’t satisfied with what they bought into. But the point is at least they knew they were buying into it. People taking out payday loans are unaware to the fact that if they don’t pay the loan back, they’re going to end up in debt for years. There’s a reason payday loans are completely BANNED in several states. Fat people signing up for the next hot thing in acai don’t realize they’re going to be billed $90 for a horrible product; they just want to try it for a week and see that it does nothing and only a healthy diet and exercise will help them achieve what they want. Teenagers with cellphones don’t really care what’s on the bill, most of the time their parents are paying it so the parents end up being the ones screwed and pissed off.
I’m certainly not saying that now we should just all stay away from every niche out there, because there are consumers out there who do want to buy products. Even if the product doesn’t work out for them how they wanted it to, they still were aware of the fact that they had to pay for it. I believe in karma and that’s what got me thinking on the subject, and I’m done promoting these things that either completely ruin peoples lives, or scam them for a quick buck. Is it worth making a lot of money for yourself when you know that you had to screw literally thousands of people to do it? Just think about the kind of negative effect you’re having on all these peoples lives.
I’m going to lose A LOT of profit but I’ve already paused my campaigns and sent emails out to the networks/direct advertisers that I was working with giving them my reasons for cutting the campaigns. There’s plenty of legitimate money to be made online and I do have a few of them running so I’ll be fine. I already have enough money and doing these things to thousands of people just isn’t worth it and I feel better already now that I’ve stopped. Sure just because my ad drops off means someone elses ad will take it’s place, and this stuff will always be promoted, but that’s not the point.
If you do want to promote in these shady/deceptive niches, head over to my page for shady affiliates who want to do shady things and let me know what you’re interested in and I’ll see what I can do.
Bring it.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
i am incredibly impressed. good for you.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Yeah, no doubt man. it is great to read posts like this. If only more people gave up profit for goodwill!! Proud of ya man!
September 6th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Yea. Keep your head straight and your be honest to people. Thats always been my belief.
September 7th, 2008 at 7:50 am
I am also impressed. It will be interesting to see how long it last… Was this something the concious was getting at you about?
September 10th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Yeah, I’m also a little interested to see how long it will last… I mean, what happens if the money stops, you have to do what you have to do, right?
Jay
September 5th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
I glad you had the balls to write this. I respect you for this post, most people would look the other way. It hard to be honest with yourwelf when you are making soo much cash from it.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
respect!
September 5th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Best post yet. Way to come to your senses.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
And this is coming from the guy that was charging $300 a month for his shitty forum. Nice try dude but you are hypocrite. You can say this about every single product or service on the net. I don’t feel sry for people that buy stuff online. There is fine print and you SHOULD read it. Nobody held a gun to there head and said buy GREEN TEA now. Im guessing using credit cards are immoral too. You know that you have to pay the stuff back.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Not sure if you read the beginning of the post saying I had come to a lot of these realizations last night. Probably not because you were obviously too stupid to read that I never charged $300 a month for the forum.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Are you gay paul? This is not april fool idiot! lol LMAO
September 5th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
I know the forum is free now. But no one ever paid you any money to be part of the forum. Am I missing somethin…..
September 5th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Not $300.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Cut is right. Stop trying to save the world.
September 11th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Stop trying to screw it. Also,man up and use your full name.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I can’t tell if this is a whole bunch of bullshit or not. Affiliate marketing is not for the faint at heart, we all know it’s sketchy, spammy, and not sustainable.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
It’s very sustainable and can be very legit as well.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Exactly. We all know there’s no Magic Pills or Formulas that work for Weight Loss, so why not promote something that DOES work?
Sure, it MIGHT not convert as easily, but for every scam – there’s plenty of LEGITIMATE offers out there. Just get to know your market and you’ll find a TON of legit offers out there that will make you feel good about yourself, and not the way Paul feels (like so many others do in this Business — they’re just too afraid to admit it).
Excellent post.
September 8th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Yeah, did anyone notice how Amazon pushes used items so much more now than even selling their own stock? That’s because they make a ton on an (ahem) affiliate commission. they churn that 15% 24 hrs a day and don’t stock anything in their warehouse. They just have the traffic. Freecreditreport.com is really just an internal affiliate site for experian. The list goes on. Affiliate marketing is completely sustainable and actually a better idea in volatile markets because one can support many merchants instead of being roped to one product’s ability to provide for market needs.
September 10th, 2008 at 11:12 am
And can but I think he was just saying that MOST were?
Jay
September 5th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Paul – I agree with you 100% on this post, probably your best post. So I don’t make 5K per day, but at least everything I promote I feel good about. Karma will come back and get you, it always does..
September 5th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
I’m not forcing anyone to sign up for these offers. They can make their own poor decisions if they want.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
That’s not the point, they’re stupid for making the decision but it’s not always their fault and either way they’re ending up in a shitty situation because of you.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Not my problem. I sleep fine at night. Good for you though.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:47 am
You do for now – until you actually find out about someone who’s life you may have affected in a negative manner… Karma’s a bitch and that’s why Paul wrote this because I think he has come to that realization.
September 8th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Forget about Karma. What about just integrity and respect in the industry? I’m so old fashioned.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
So has anyone tried clicking on that link? I click on it thinking wow I wonder if he’s serious I should ask him what he really means. When in fact my computer is over run but some stupid music that made my browser dance around the screen! That was sooooo uncalled for! hahah
On one hand I thought, this guy is scamming all the affiliates who are following him so they can feel bad and drop their campaigns, then on the other hand I was thinking perhaps he is telling the truth.
I really don’t know at this point..but I do know I won’t be doing payday loans…that sounds depressing.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
I’m not asking anybody to do anything to their campaigns, just expressing how I feel.
I had to call up a direct advertiser and have them cancel my flight and hotel they booked for me to fly and meet/hang out with them because it would be pointless now that I’m not running the niche anymore.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Very funny…keep up doing the good work but how do you think people will believe you when you put up that shitting gay video fucking them asses like hell through the link of a good post are u insanely out of your mind?
September 5th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
wtf?
September 5th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
ezz there nigga this guy is being honest in the post
September 5th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
and that link is not closing either!!!
September 6th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
just do ctrl+alt+del then end task it will close lol he is crazy though lmao
September 5th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
The Green Tea offer (well, at least the one I promote) clearly labels the terms next to the credit card form–so, I don’t see a problem with that. It seems to vary from advertiser to advertiser, though.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Yup, different offers have different moral levels..
September 5th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Congrats on finally realising that the majority are scams
September 5th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Agreed. I have always talked about how some things are more important than earning a quick buck. That’s why I personally choose to avoid the scammy niches you mentioned. Yes people ultimately choose to click on these things, but they are also deceptive and crappy offers. What goes around comes around in life, and its just as easy to make money in a niche you feel isn’t scamming or tricking people.
September 5th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Why people who respond to the posts and writing BS never leave their web site? :-)
Just asking :-). And on the side note to the post this sounded like they are legal usurers. hehehe.
But it’s nice to know everything is not about the money all the time. yes we need to make cash to freakin survive but like you said there are other ways to do it.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Yup every affiliate needs to draw the line somewhere with what they promote.. for each person it’s different as each persons moral outlooks are different.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Buyer beware
September 5th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Nice one … Ive had long talks with my wife over this. For those starting out I’ve always suggested promoting something you’ve used or enjoy. Much easier to market and you feel good about helping others … you can also write an honest & solid review as well :)
The shady side of affiliate marketing is not just with the offers but can also be how the affiliate promotes it.
Kudos for posting this …
September 5th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
This is a great post Paul, very controversial. It’s up to each affiliate to decide how they want to sleep at night.
You are hypocritical though. After you stop charging for your ubercamp you still charged me another $99 anyway and didn’t reply to the 2 emails I sent you.
September 5th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I didn’t charge you anything, I told every member to cancel their subscription as the forums would be free. Email me again I probably missed it or IM me.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Promoting shady shit is bad for all marketers in the long run. More and more people will stop buying stuff online because of all these fucking semi-scam offers.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
But why you are saying or realizing this facts is just cos you have made some money already with them? You have money now so you can say any shit you like. I know thats why. Its a free world anyway so who the fuck cares?
September 5th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
I’ve had enough of your shitty little comments. Your obviously a Nigerian, undedicated cunt sitting in a baron internet cafe, on 128k internet — Making shitty social networks and commenting with illegible comments.
Basically, FUCK OFF NIGGA!
September 5th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Easy there e-ToughGuy! You’re getting all worked up and this isn’t even your blog. You’re making an even bigger ass of yourself than he is. If idiots like that can get you this worked up, you must be living a pretty miserable/frustrated life. Relax.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
There is NO Need at all, for any cowardly cyber racism like TF was saying. It really is curious how you a few post you don’t agree with could leave you so unhinged.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
undedicated huh? you are a fucking moron. Atleast lie and say you meant undedicated and not “uneducated”
September 6th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
DID SOMEONE GET HURT? hahahahahahaha LMAO piss on you! lol
September 5th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Goober, i am actually going to have to agree with you.
While the line is very vague between what is right and what is wrong, some offers are just down right deceptive. The companies promoting them are shady as shit … don’t answer phone calls emails etc. (Many i’ve seen though, clearly state that the customer would be rebilled so tough luck really)
I guess its a good way to make a quick mill for the one running it … Find worthless product > put offer on affiliate networks > snag CC infos > rebill.
If there were more legitimate offers on the networks, run by legitimate companies, i’d personally feel a lot better promoting them. Unfortunately, for some reason, they aren’t many. For example there are diet pills that actually work, like BioTest products, but who the fuck wants to promote a $45 sale for a $3 commission? Imagine all the big aff networks finding good offers for great products … things would be a little different
September 6th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
“Imagine all the big aff networks finding good offers for great products … things would be a little different”
Couldn’t agree more with that statement.
September 5th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
How about pushing leads to colleges? A lot of students won’t graduate and will be left with a mountain of debt following them the rest of their life which can’t be thrown off during bankruptcy. Other students will graduate, and end up with debt that doesn’t come close to matching the income they earn.
September 5th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I have been considering the same things Paul. One thing though I went to your link for the contact page to let you know you made a mistake on saying if people want to do this stuff contact you, so I had to restart the computer. I thought you meant to say if you want to learn more about morally doing aff marketing, contact you. Will you be teaching better aff marketing in your forum?
September 5th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
nice link bait btw.
September 5th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Ah, I get it, “private,” as in genitals, and “contact” as in, well, contact. Do I win a prize?
Anyway, I’ve had this discussion with friends many times – is taking advantage of trusting, naive, or stupid people an acceptable business plan? I don’t mean this as a slight but rather an observation – people who have more to fall back on are more likely to do the right thing when it results in a monetary hit. More or less human nature I guess. You see it in business with ethical cases (think Enron, Worldcom, etc), and I’ll probably do the same myself one day.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
You are just trying to scare people away from these niches with guilt, so you have less competition in the SERPs/paid results.
September 6th, 2008 at 6:38 am
EXACTLY!!!
September 6th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Yes sir. You are correct. Because one or two less people in payday loans is going to make a big effect on the industry.
I’ve talked to uber about this. It seems legit, and it’d be pointless to try and scare people away.
Hater.
September 5th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Morals do tend to be an inconvenience in AM. I absolutely refuse to push pay day loan offers, and I’m still iffy on credit cards.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
I have no problem pushing credit card offers. I justify it though, by helping people get the most out of their credit cards and showing people with good credit how to make money off of the cards that they get from my site.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
you are either linkbaiting or immature. Such decisions are not made after one night of allergy. Not by people capable of earning super affiliate money. Either way – good for you. Ignorance is a bliss.
Can’t wait to see nickycakes linkbait ok this account as well. Nice entertainment.
September 5th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Good post Paul. I just got a lot of respect back for you. It takes real character to turn down (especially to pause existing moneymakers) money and take a reduction in your existing income to “do the right thing”. I have wrestled with this decision myself and I’m not going to say I am a saint and only promote the cleanest legitimate offers only but I try to stay clear of the really scammy deceptive ones out there that are only geared at dooping people out of their cash because they didn’t read the fine print on a “too good to be true” offer. There are way too many legitimate ways to make money out there.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Paul, you’re a good man.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
dude,
WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH THE GAY VIDEO LINK???
and that link doesn’t close either!!!!
Forcing me to restart my entire computer!!! and lose all my open tabs!!! (since I couldn’t restore previous sessions and have that open window running again and refusing to close)
it makes this post totally crap!
September 5th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Do as I say, Not as I do.
September 5th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
My feelings exactly. I’ve pretty much started promoting useful physical products or very legit services, though I do have a freebies/zip site that I leave up, since I always just figured it would be a good easy lesson for people to learn about trust online without taking any real damage. Then again, I might take that down, since I realize the path that they get put on will try to get them to sign up for some of the scammier offers.
At any rate, I always feel that providing real value rather than gaming a system and playing off stupidity will be more sustainable in the long run, though I won’t deny that there are profits to be made in these niches.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Paul I can say I agree with you, even promoting porn is more ethical than most of the mainstream CPA offers.
It took me over 5 years to start promoting loans. Mainly because I thought it was morally wrong to push people into debt. In that way the adult niche is much more legit IMO.
However, what changed my ways is that I tried to build up an ecommerce store for 2 years and it’s not easy. First of all you need to know the market, and that takes years to learn. To buy the right products you need experience, and storing the inventory can get expensive if the products won’t sell. Especially outside the US where markets are way way smaller. At least we can cover our costs and take out a small salary but I can’t say it’s a luxurious lifestyle…
Having all the knowledge about internet marketing I got into the loan affiliate niche and made more the first three months, than we made total in a year with the ecommerce store… It may be easier to let things go when you actually have the money already but when you need it, you push everything you can to pay the bills.
Nobody got rich because they were legit and did everything morally correct, all of these people have fucked someone over in a way or another.
At least I stay out of the really scammy shit out there that are borderline fraud. That’s where I draw my line.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Paul,
Though I frequently read your blog, I have never commented before, until now. Let me just say that I am extremely impressed even proud of your realizations and common sense empathy. I believe this sense of right and wrong and your mature conclusions will eventually lead you to higher long term profits than you have ever imagined!
Thanks for sharing this with us. It made my day to see other affiliate marketers thinking like this.
September 5th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
So was this intended to be a terrible joke or is that ” april´s fool” link some kind of hack and you really think what you said?
September 6th, 2008 at 12:07 am
I call bullshit. If you really believe in karma, won’t the money you made pushing the crap be at risk? According to your new found morals, it is ill gotten money right? I think you ought to make one hell of a donation to some charity if this is truly the way you feel. Maybe you could find a bunch of these morons with payday loans and payoff their loans or something?
September 6th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
oh yea thats a nice one there…can you do that dude? I second to this!
September 6th, 2008 at 12:30 am
I think Pauls easily at a position where he could pick and choose what types of offers he wants to run with hardly any financial setbacks. However it’d be kind of hard for most people at a lesser financial position to get “idealistic” and suddenly stop running a profitable payday loan campaign. That’d be a pretty tough decision to give up for example 30k a day.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:44 am
Well then the way forward is clear. Start investigating everything you promote before you get your hands dirty from now on, and start teaching people “good karma” ways to make money. And BTW good luck. Pretty much everything humanity does feeds off of other life in one way or another and once you start down that rabbithole of trying to find something squeaky clean, you won’t believe what you find! Try to do everything by the book and you’ll soon end up a broke mother f*cker like me hehe… ;) And be aware that as well as “positive hype” promoting products, there is also “negative hype” finding paranoid faults with everything.
Maybe you could start a new site which is an independent review of affiliate products, where you actually buy them yourself, or use all that cash to get them lab tested or do some research or something cool… then spotlight and promote the good stuff and diss the bad stuff… need a few disclaimers and a few hours from a lawyer but I reckon you’d get an audience, what with your position and that…
September 6th, 2008 at 12:48 am
you could call if affiliatedirt.com – bet its available… :)
September 6th, 2008 at 4:56 am
Glad to see you’ve left the dark side, Paul :)
I may not be profiting $30k / day (barely / year) with affiliate marketing, but the products & services I promote aren’t ruining peoples lives.
When you’re ready for a cup of Tim Horton’s again, let me know!
September 6th, 2008 at 6:40 am
Dude, if a product would really be that harmful – people wouldnt spend money for it. People arent as stupid as you think.
September 6th, 2008 at 6:49 am
Your over estimating people, You can sell HIV Pills to someone if your landing page was appealing enough. Hopefully they rebill when they need the AIDS Meds…….
September 6th, 2008 at 7:25 am
Short form, high CPA lead generation for the win.
September 6th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Bravo… :)
I’m so happy that someone finally brings this out. I’m really starting to think twice about a lot of MMO niches. I won’t be able to sleep at night if I’ve screwed thousands, jeez.
I’m really glad your doing this, even if it means loosing out on a lot of profit. WHO CARES. Money is not everything. Think about that.
Regards,
– Mark Cuda
September 6th, 2008 at 8:32 am
What about the guys who got a payday loan and it saved them from being evicted?
What about the fatass who bought the tea and lost weight?
What about the guy who bought a ringtone and was happy with it?
You don’t read about the “satisfied” side. When people have a bad experience, they’ll tell the world. When they have a good one, they might tell one friend. Btw, other sites have been giving away niches for over a year now.
:)
September 6th, 2008 at 10:22 am
very good post.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Interesting post Paul – thanks for sharing your insights. I agree with you on some your points, but not all. Here’s my thoughts:
Green Tea/Acai/Ringtone offers that opt-in users to a monthly fee that is only mentioned in the terms of use (and who ever reads those anyways) are morally wrong. You left out an even bigger catagory of scam offers – biz ops. If the pricing information is clearly stated somewhere on the page, it’s fine, but hiding it in the TOS is unacceptable.
Payday loan offers, though, are not morally wrong on this account. Most of them very clearly state their interest rates somewhere during the process, and even though they are only for idiots, they are not deceiving. That is really the litmus test for a good offer vs. an immoral scam – does it deceive a good, conscientious consumer who makes a reasonable effort to understand it? Biz ops that hide their bi-weekly $89.99 fee deep in the TOS that opens in another window can scam all but the most savvy; payday loans will only scam the stupid – and they don’t deserve their money anyway.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:04 am
I’m certainly glad you’ve had the balls to write this. Being that you have an authority blog, it will be a good wake up call to anyone with a conscience thinking that they just need a quick buck.
Given the state of the economy, even though the consumer isnt being smart about their online purchases, doesn’t mean we have the right to take advantage of their ignorance and desperation. The networks may tell you different. Don’t listen. The advertisers will tell you different. Put it back on them. Call bullshit bullshit, and let them know there are moral affiliates with integrity out there who simply wont promote shady offers, no matter what the payout.
The point is, is that we/you/ i can sleep better at night knowing we are contributing positive things is a world of suffering, instead of being part of the problem. More marketers need to come to this realization and follow the road less traveled.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:32 am
tons of selfish people in affiliate marketing lol
September 6th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Paul, I get the post. What I don’t get is why at the end of the post you put a link to contact you and you attach it to gay porn. That’s really retarded. What if someone was sitting with their mother or at work, and you pull a stunt like that. That wasn’t cool dude! You are now showing your age. Always be professional.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Well what can i say, Good for you.
If you feel you’ll sleep better now then great.
In this world, making big money most of the time require that you move big numbers and take advantage of the weaker ones.
Becoming rich is for the STRONG HEARTED
My 2 cents
September 6th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Congrats Paul! It looks like you discovered you conscious! (no sarcasm there)
If other affiliates began to realize this, the industry could really change. This is the great thing about the free market, we have the ability to change how business is done! If enough affiliates stop promoting these types of offers then networks will stop them too and start having a lot more morally-acceptable offers.
good post.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Paul, terrific post. Good for you to come around. You might have a temporary setback as you scramble and make changes, but I’m sure you’ll come out even better in the end.
Affiliate marketing is just like most any other industry. A lot of it is legitimate, but some of it isn’t. Where it might be different is that a lot of people who were scammed may not complain as much as if they had been ripped off by a physical, real-world store that they can go back to.
I love the moral-less jerks like John above who “sleep fine at night” while exploiting people. They just don’t get it. Yes, people can be adults and should be responsible for every decision they make. If everyone knew everything, John would have no business and might even be in jail. But we can’t know everything, and so we must often turn to experts or people posing as them and there lies the rub. The problem is that the copy-and-pasteness of the Net makes it very easy to look like an expert.
It’s only a question of time for browsers to have Web of Trust-like features built-in and that might kill parts of the industry overnight.
September 6th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
I agree with Patrick. If you want us to take you somewhat seriously, let’s be professional. Also, how about in your next post listing some of the positive, legit fields. I think most of already know what the crap is.
September 6th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Just the fact that you took the time to set up that page says something…honestly, pretty low man.
September 6th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
wake up- what makes you think it’s ok to force sexual content on people? It’s not- it wasn’t all right with me at all. You suddenly change your position- after you don’t need the money anyway so it must have been hard- then take the power to punish people who held the view you held yesterday- who do need the money, or who never thought about it at all.
People who read this blog look up to you and you ask them to contact you and you don’t think everyone will click on that link- just to see what’s behind it?
I was in public when i did and you had no right to show sexually explicit images to me- not funny. Your actions had real consequences and were uncalled for and I lost respect for you.
hope you feel great about yourself.
September 6th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
lmao if you read the actual paragraph saying “if you want to promote these shady niches”…
September 8th, 2008 at 7:12 am
show some business integrity man – you just lost a feed subscriber.
September 9th, 2008 at 12:06 am
C’mon, Paul.
Yes, I chuckled when he said he was in public, but what if some kid was around when that happened? People don’t exactly expect that type of stuff when they come here.
Seems immature to me. But, it’s your blog.
September 7th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
lol go back and read the paragraph before you click on random links haha
September 6th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Awesome post Paul. I see you pissed off a lot of people here, but hey, you’re not successful enough if you don’t have haters right? Congratulations on the boost in comments, traffic and loyal followings because of this post!
September 6th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Let me THANK YOU for this great, great post. 100% agree.
Your decision is SHINY, and if the crap will not stop being promoted (and we know it will not), at least it won’t be promoted by YOU.
If you feel having sentiments like that, stop doing this bullshit is a RULE.
Internetz and businez are both full of LEGIT money also that waits to be earned. It’s a choice.
Respect.
September 6th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
What a bunch of saps…
You guys should seriously watch The Corporation then stick it in your peace pipes and smoke it…if you think “legitimate” companies are pushing there products/offers just to make a world a better place you should go back to sleep in lala land..
So Paul, why not just give up your campagins and start promoting dishwashers and shit from Amazon or Sears.. earn $3.45 for every $1500 fridge you sell..
Fake it till you make it…
September 6th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Sounds like a real “Jerry McGuire” moment.
I’ve had them and changed things because of it. You’ll be better off for it.
Be care not to confuse “selfish” with just wanting to make a good living. There are ways of being in business without being selfish, but it is a fine line.
September 6th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Don’t worry bout the haters Paul, you now know within yourselt that you can sleep easy at night without bad karma on your tail. These offers ARE scams and one less marketer pushing these the better. AM can be very profitable, look to better product marketing, I do very well off physical product niches that is only giving people what they want, not what they dont need. Focus on helping people find what they need and the world will turn for you.
September 6th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Great article man, props
September 6th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Uberaffiliate,
Finally, a shining example of the long view. You should stand tall knowing that you are now in a position to do good and not evil. If we were only about the quick buck, we would continue to support these vitamin-weightloss-diet-pill-acai-berry chareletons.
I have only been in Affiliate Marketing for two months. In that time I have decided to run my business clean, honest and straight-up, with the thought that no one needs to suffer financially from my efforts to make an on-line income.
I respect your position, and vow to follow your example in conducting my on-line business. This is more than mere altruism, this is the only way I can sleep at night. What many people forget is that one day you will need to make an accounting of your activities. In my case the report will come back, “Excellent, you followed an ethical path, here is your reward”.
Respectfully, Nicholas
September 6th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Paul, I’m proud of you for being willing to think about this. Many of the best offers out there are the worst for people. People commenting on this blog will come up with a million justifications but you’re on the right track. I think about if I want my daughter eating “X” pills, or doing whatever is in these offers and my answer is almost always “no”. Don’t listen to anyone else telling you otherwise because there is much more than karma at stake.
September 6th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
eh, i would read the fine print, so they should too. if the program does not add all the fine print, then how is an affiliate to know anyway, to not promote it.
September 7th, 2008 at 5:52 am
Wait a sec…if that’s Paul’s private contact page then that must be Paul…wow man so all along the guy in the meatspin video has been you!
September 7th, 2008 at 7:13 am
Congrats, now email me all of these unethical keywords, text ads and landing pages. :)
September 7th, 2008 at 11:55 am
According to this you would also have to close this blog and stop promoting affiliate networks.
Since this is all about shady stuff.
What are you planing to do now?
Ideas for you: do some dating site which is not shady. example:plentyoffish.com
September 8th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Uh… Jason, maybe you need to look at the offers on affiliate networks. Tons of offers which just sell products that don’t provide extra ample opportunity for a person to get ripped off.
e.g. sports gear, electronics equipment, books, exercise equipment, the list goes on and on…
September 7th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Quite an interesting post… not sure I agree though
September 7th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
By the way, care to share some of those ‘unethical keywords’? :p
September 7th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Include the clickbank ebooks, make money online products etc.
But this doesn’t apply to all niches. Automotive finance, debt settlement , credit reports ,dating , dish tv , dvd rentals, game memberships, inkjets cartridges,insurance , home repair, timeshare , ecommerce/shopping sites aff programs, business cards, jewellery , swimming pool quotes,
and countless others which actually benefit the guy
September 7th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Real nice Paul. I can’t believe it’s coming from you. I always dubbed you as spammer. But good for you. It’s time to move on.
I guess now after making real money you’re losing interest. Everyone does i suppose. It’s boring to wake up every morning to see $5000k you made yesterday. Do that for few years and you’ll get bored eventually and would want to move to something else. So what’s you got in mind?
September 7th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Paul,
How do you know barack obama, and why is he talking about you in this video? http://tinyurl.com/5vq26r
Did i miss the post where you said you and barack are friends? Seriously, thats kind of cool you know barack.
September 7th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
If you prefer to become emotionally connected to business you may want to find something else to do.
September 8th, 2008 at 7:06 am
So you are using the “it’s just business” excuse?
I’m totally screwing someone over, but “it’s just business.” LOL
If that’s what you meant then that’s lame.
You CAN run a business with integrity.
September 8th, 2008 at 7:01 am
A salute to you Paul. I agree with most of what you wrote.
The only really dumb and immature thing you did was link to gay porn (some people that clicked it may have had kids around). I didn’t have my kids around but I was one of the dumbasses that actually misread the sentence and clicked on it.
I’ve always stayed away from payday loans and offers that are going to the majority of the time hurt the person. I have however run a couple diet offers that could be questionable. I personally don’t think ringtones are that bad. There is always going to be some people that don’t read the fine print but most of them do want the ringtones and $10 a month isn’t getting ripped off IMO. With the new ringtone rules it’s hard to overlook the pricing.
Some people will always make up excuses about why they still run some offers such as “what about that person who got that payday loan and didn’t lose their house etc…” Yea, like maybe 1 in 5000 of them. A payday loan will just get the person further in debt the vast majority of the time.
This post is going to make a lot of people rethink what is most important. Would you be proud to tell your mother or friends about all the offers you are running? And for the Christian affiliates out there such as myself, are you doing the right thing?
You bring up a bigger question as well. What about the affiliate networks that run these offers? I’ve yet to find a “CPA” network that doesn’t so we shouldn’t single out any of them.
There are still tons of niches and ways to make a living online without running the SCAM offers.
September 8th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Tim, I’d say it doesn’t matter what the affiliate network is doing. I didn’t see Paul telling anyone else what to do or setting himself up as judge and jury. He was just sharing his most recent epiphany. The cpa network would have to have that epiphany for themselves.
September 8th, 2008 at 9:57 am
TimSchroeder write: “The only really dumb and immature thing you did was link to gay porn (some people that clicked it may have had kids around).”
I hope Paul to mature up a bit like most other grown up supper affiliate marketers in his league. Considering he is still 20, you can sense the kid in his voice sometimes.
September 8th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
I must say, you’re very good at building trust, Paul.
September 8th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Hi Paul,
Just got an email from the pepperjamnetwork promoting stupid fat pills that will never work, cost less than $1 to produce but offering me $35 per sale…
do you still work with these guys so?
dave.
September 8th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Ooooh, almost got rickrolled! Good points though.
September 8th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Another good post that worth reading!. Looking for more legitimate & long term offers now.
September 8th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Hi Paul,
I landed in your blog through a post made on Moneybites.com referencing this one, and even though I always have intended to run my business with integrity, I could say that selling as an affiliate is like selling arms, you’ll never know what the buyer are going to do with what you sold him/her, and is not your business anyway.
Below, I’m pasting the comment I left on Moneybites referring to this subject:
September 9th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Great post Paul! I saw Cakes’ post above and hats off to Cakes too for putting beef aside and giving props where props are due. Nick kind of hit on the fact that networks need to get legit shit to promote but its just a big web of douche baggery in this industry and that is what is keeping mainstream money away.
Scammy networks, scammy offers, scammy affiliates. I attended my first summit in Boston and I came back feeling like a dick for being a part of this unprofessional douche bag industry. There are always going to be freeloader, lazy people, out there that will do anything to make a buck but props to Paul and everyone else that takes the high road. To those of you that don’t…no stress…you’ll get yours someday…
September 9th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I’m certainly glad I looked at the status bar mouse over before clicking the link to “promote shady stuff”. I didnt know where it led, but knew it couldnt be good.
Was at a meetup in SF with like 25 affiliates. Someone else read your post and clicked it with all these people around. It was pretty funny, more so cuz I didnt get suckered into clicking it and others who should know better did. haha
September 10th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Yeah, good for you man… I’m sure you’ll make just as much doing non-shady things anyways… plus you’ll have a clear mind and maybe your allegeries won’t kick your ass until 7:30am lol
Jay
September 10th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
Very, very true. Just because you CAN promote an offer, doesn’t mean you SHOULD promote an offer. You do reap what you sow. It’s amazing how things can come back later in life to really bite you. What people don’t realize is these stupid offers are really hurting affiliate marketing. They are killing the trust factor with buyers. One bad transaction could prevent a person from ever buying on the Internet again. Who wins? Nobody.
September 11th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Good to see someone with a following speaking up about the garbage in the industry. Keep up the good fight!
September 13th, 2008 at 4:03 am
Paul,
Good stuff! Way to go for standing up for what’s right. Come join Raj and me in doing Affect Change— let’s do some good.
Dennis
September 14th, 2008 at 2:54 am
the embarrassing thing about this is that people believe you.
September 17th, 2008 at 1:28 am
Respect is the word!
September 17th, 2008 at 3:09 am
well said, principle above all
September 20th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Another gay ass post by a gay broke ass marketer.
October 1st, 2008 at 7:06 am
All you haters are idiots.
The real issue here is that Paul is taking the moral high ground after making a profit. If he were genuinely sorry, he’d take the money earned on bullshit offers and bail out poor sods like the guy with no money for electricity.
October 16th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
[...] posts on ethics in affiliate marketing. Most notably were the blog posts from Bryn Youngblut and Uberaffiliate. Now I don’t want to come in and repeat what either have said because that would be [...]